Carlos Galindo-Elvira on Connecting the Latino and Jewish Communities

Announcer: 00:01

From PHX.FM, this is Conversation with the Rabbi, featuring open, honest dialogue, and sometimes unconventional perspectives on the world we all share.

Adrian McIntyre: 00:13

Welcome to another Conversation with the Rabbi. I'm Adrian McIntyre with PHX.fm. Our host for this show is Rabbi Michael Beyo with the East Valley Jewish Community Center. Hi, rabbi.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 00:24

Hey, how are you, Adrian?

Adrian McIntyre: 00:25

I'm very good. Our guest today is Carlos Galindo-Elvira. He's the director of community engagement and partnerships with Chicanos Por La Causa. Carlos, welcome to the show.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 00:37

I am so thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.

Adrian McIntyre: 00:39

Thanks for joining us. Now, why don't you start us off by giving us a little bit of background?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 00:44

Sure. Chicanos Por La Causa has a 51 year history of actually making history in Arizona by providing services to the Latino community. It was born through the Chicano movement of the late '60s to fill the gap or the areas that were not being filled by traditional services. Something that a lot of people don't know about, is that it's not just in Arizona, it's in the Southwest. We're in Nevada, we're in New Mexico, we're in Texas and we are also in the country of Mexico. So we have a huge footprint that's national and international. The work that I do at Chicanos Por La Causa is through working with colleagues, whether it's on events, fundraising, public relations, community relations, marketing. My position is really interesting because there are three distinct teams in the department that I work in and I'm not a member of one, I'm a member of all them. I flow through all of them, giving assistance wherever I can. A lot of people have asked me, "How are you enjoying working at Chicanos Por La Causa?" The one thing that I say back to them is, "I can now laugh in English and Spanish."

Adrian McIntyre: 01:58

I heard a conversation not too long ago with somebody who said one of the advantages of bilingualism is that you really are living in the in-betweens of multiple worlds and there's a richness there. Now, how did you get to meet Rabbi Beyo?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 02:14

I met rabbi through the work that I was doing for a national organization here locally that fights hate. Part of my role was to ensure that I met with Jewish community leaders to share the offerings of the organization and to be a friend. For me, it wasn't just about being a professional friend, it was also about being a personal friend because the work of fighting hate is personal and it's meaningful. But just because I left that organization, doesn't mean that I left my Jewishness behind or my Jewish friends behind because I'm very committed to fighting against antisemitism and all forms of hatred and so it's important that we continue to build those bonds. The uniqueness of my role at Chicanos Por La Causa is the word partnerships. That is what I am also responsible for in seeking out those very distinct, unique partnerships that help to improve both communities because it's got to be mutually beneficial. No one likes the feeling of being used. If we're going to have a relationship that benefits both, we have to listen to each other and be there for each other. That's what I get to do at Chicanos Por La Causa, on top of the other things. To be able to continue that personal and professional relationship with Rabbi Beyo, hey, that's gravy, right?

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 03:35

Thank you, Carlos. Let me ask you a question. What language do you dream in?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 03:39

I dream in both. Sometimes in English, sometimes in Spanish. But I also will tell you that every once in a while I have dreams that I'm in Israel and for some beautiful miracle through dreaming, I'm speaking Hebrew. I have no idea what I've said and when I wake up, I have no idea how to even begin to understand it, but I understand the context of the dream.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 04:02

Right, that's wonderful. I also speak a few languages, and actually English is my third, I believe, or fourth language. I always dream in, or at least I think that I dream in Italian, and I am more comfortable than any other language doing math in Italian. I don't know, maybe that's the way our brain works. You were talking about partnerships. Can you tell me how do you view yourself as a Jewish man living in a very cosmopolitan city and being also Latino and how do you mesh together these two awesome cultures?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 04:43

It's not a burden, I will tell you that. It's quite the gift that I have been given to be able to see the world through different lenses and appreciate because each lens has a different value, a different desired outcome, but there are moments and crucial times where all lenses come as one. When we talk about the hate crimes, when we talk about the impact of a society that has become less civil and doesn't practice as much discourse, how do you draw upon those lenses? For example, sometimes I think about what is the best response that I would give culturally as a Latino, because we're brought up to have so much reverence and respect, especially for the elderly, that I think that way. Then there are times when I'm on Twitter or on Facebook that I have to put on a very Jewish lens in a response. Then there's my American sensibilities and that lens. I love it to be able to think through those lenses in looking at the world, hearing back what it all means. But I think that if I bring it all together, it's really that openness to want to work with so many different groups and so many different people. I was put on this earth to do something, all of us were. Perhaps being able to incorporate those three world viewpoints is why I'm here, to try and bring communities together and to work with people like you.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 06:26

One thing that I find very interesting since living in America, I find that a lot of American Jews don't fully understand that we are not all descendant of Jews from Poland, and Russia, Hungary. You have Jews of all different shapes and colors and backgrounds. You are a Latino Jew, I am Sephardi Jew, born in Italy, lived in different countries. Tell me a little bit about what does that mean for you and how do you teach our community that we are not all Ashkenazi?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 07:10

Right, it's transferable to the fact that within the Latino culture, within Latino countries, in South America and Central America and Mexico, there are also different colors of the rainbow, there's not just one color. The same will apply within the Jewish community. There are the Ashkenazi Jews that a lot of people think about, especially in holidays, that specific menu. I will fully and publicly disclose that I believe the Sephardic menu for Passover is the way to go.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 07:46

Amen. Amen, brother.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 07:48

Because it is so comparable to the Mexican diet. It's a blessing to be able to enjoy the Sephardic menu during Passover. But I say that as a way to explore it further in saying the word appreciation. That there is no one set specific menu or viewpoint or idea. It's varied, it's diverse and sometimes we go just to the border of an issue or a community and not cross over to see what else is there. That then we would see that it is not just one way that is interpreted about the Jewish community, that it is also varied, that there are also degrees of color, degrees of language. When I went to Israel for the very first time, I don't speak Hebrew, but I speak Spanish and I was able to get through all of Israel speaking Spanish.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 08:49

Right, right. Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective, a little bit more serious perspective. It is often, and I'm sure in your former position fighting hate, and also in your current position where you fight also hate, how would you deal with the fact that often non-Jews look at the Jews, thinking that we are all come from again, Western European countries and we don't? Especially nowadays, when there is conversations about equality and a racial tension in the country. I don't consider myself to be white necessarily. I don't, that's not my own self-identity. Would you like to talk a little bit about that?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 09:42

I think that you said the word that really encapsulate this conversation in terms of identity. How do we identify, how do we look at ourselves and how do we project that to others? It's not somebody else's job to tell me, or to tell you how to identify, because that's very personal and it goes to our upbringing. It goes to our self-esteem to our self-worth. Through the work, for example, Chicanos Por La Causa, we are advocates for a vulnerable community. When they are voiceless, it is our responsibility to be their voice, whether it's speaking up against Senate Bill 1070, or speaking up against laws or rules or regulations that we believe would suppress voters from being able to cast their ballot. We proactively seek out opportunities to ensure that we are empowering our community and that also goes to identity. That is something that empowers yourself. Many times there are individuals that will say, "I don't see color," and my response to that is, "I want you to see color because I'm not invisible." I am who I am just like you are who you are. It doesn't make you less, and it doesn't make you more.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 11:07

No, I completely agree with you. I want to see color, I want to see differences, I want to see different people and I want to appreciate those differences. I want to learn from those differences. Yes, if we don't see anything, sometimes we may run the risk of then forgetting that the person that is in front of me is different than me and what can I learn from them? Tell me, how do you think that especially you're in Phoenix and in general in the country, how can the Latino community and the Jewish community find common ground? And what are those common grounds? Where can we really build strong interconnected communities? Because I believe that we do share a lot, but I don't see that in practice coming to fruition.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 11:59

Well, let's start with family and food. Both cultures are extremely in love with food, and of course we love our families. But we also have to look at where are the touch points of commonality in terms of impact? For example, on the issue of civil rights, there's a great deal of impact on both communities in different ways, for sure. But nonetheless, there is impact. We need to find those bridges because we won't always agree on everything, but I don't agree with everything that my brother says either. How do we take that relationship that we have within our own families, because I've always said that family is the hardest politics of all, how do we take that setting and apply it to that crossover between the Latino community and the Jewish community? Understanding that on both sides there's not just one language or one color. There are many facets to this diversity within each community, but how do we practice a way of extending our arm, shaking hands and trying to build a relationship that is again, mutually beneficial? A couple of years ago there was legislation to try and challenge the birthright provision of the 14th Amendment. Latinos, of course, we were opposed to it. We were lobbying against it, advocating against it, but I'll never forget that 14 rabbis took it upon themselves to oppose this legislation. They were very deliberate in ensuring that it was 14 rabbis because it was about the 14th Amendment. We also need to as a Latino community, when there are incidents, when there are situations, to also speak out against antisemitism, against that ancient hatred. We need to be able to give and take with each other so that one community does not feel indebted to the other, but instead working together on those type of issues.

Adrian McIntyre: 14:10

The three of us are very comfortable using the language of common ground, partnership, community engagement, things of that nature. Yet the word that has come up over and over in this conversation is something I think we ought to take a closer look at, and that word is hate and hatred. The Anti-Defamation League, of course, specifically focusing on hatred of Jews and the implementation of that in horrific action. But of course the Latino/Latina community, and many other communities have experienced direct discrimination and acts of violence. Let's talk about hate for a second, because before we can get to our bridges and our commonalities, we have to address the ugliness. What does hate mean to you?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 14:58

There's that overt hate that you're talking about, that we see on the news, or read about in the newspaper, or hear on the radio that there's been an incident. Whether it's the defacement of a political sign, threats being made on the phone, vandalism. Those are very visual, or at least you can hear them. But there's also other types of hate that is institutionalized, that there is not a way to describe it as hate, but could be based on at least prejudice or bigotry. When we look at the pandemic, there's a disproportionate impact happening to Latinos and African Americans. Why? Because many of them are considered essential workers and have to go to work. Some will lose their jobs if they don't go to work, many don't have sick days or vacation days or even health insurance. If we can change those type of systems in place, then we get to fairer ground, at least try and get to equity. There's also the fact that when we use word hate, it is not something that is cross pollinating between the Latino and Jewish community. It is a completely entire different segment of our society, one that shouldn't even see the day of light, and that's white supremacists and white nationalists that are unleashing hatred within our communities. Whether it's vandalizing and using swastikas, writing racist things against the Latino community or the African American community. I think when we use the word hate, we need to be very clear what we're talking about. That it is not a hate between Latinos and Jews, it's a hate being leveled at all of our communities by a very specific organized group of individuals, who let's face it, they hate Latinos, they hate Jews. They hate Jews, they hate African Americans. They hate African Americans, they hate Muslims. Or they hate Muslims, they hate people who happen to be gay.

Adrian McIntyre: 17:09

Rabbi, what are your thoughts on hate, what it means and how to deal with it?

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 17:13

Hate for me is very personal. When I think of the word hate, the first images in my mind, the memories, go back to when I was a child in the streets of Milano, Italy and seeing on the walls, swastikas equal a Star of David or writing on the walls, "Jews go back to Palestine." Or being insulted in the street or being assaulted, physically assaulted in the streets because I'm Jewish. Being Jewish and wearing proudly your Jewishness in ways that can be seen by others, is walking around with a constant target on your back. Since I always walk around with my kippah, with my yarmulke, I am a constant target for verbal hate, physical hate, innuendos, looks, et cetera. I can walk into anywhere and immediately recognize who is looking at me and why are they looking at me. This is something that for any person like me growing up, it's something that after a while we become accustomed to. But not accustomed in a good way, accustomed meaning that we're used to it and we learn each one of us in different ways, how to fight against it. Some ignore it, some actually fight against it in different ways. Hate for me is remembering that when I was walking home with my kids from synagogue on a Saturday morning, a car drove very, very close by us and threw a bottle at us, because clearly I and my kids are Jewish, so they tried to hurt us. Hate is ignorance. It's ignorance of the other. It's ignorance of thinking that all Jews are, and put whatever you want afterwards. Or all African Americans are, all Latinos, all white, that's also a form of hate. There is a lot of commonality between me and Carlos and I am sure that if we were to dig a little bit further, we will find also that we don't agree on everything. For example, Carlos spoke about hate comes from one side of the spectrum. I often speak about hate, it comes from the extreme left, the other side of the spectrum. Maybe because that's the one that is more subtle, is more academic. It addresses itself better, but it is in same way as hateful and ignorant and bigoted as the guy that chooses to wear a white hood. We need to be careful on both extremes there is hate. It's just that one has a PhD maybe after their last name and wears a tie and teaches in some Ivy League institution, and another one drives a pickup truck. Another is pickup truck guys. But again, we need to be careful on both sides.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 20:46

I don't disagree with you, rabbi. There is hate on both the left and the right, and it is not right. It is absolutely wrong. There's no question in my mind that if you and I walked into a restaurant together, the assumption would not be that it's a Latino and a Jew walking into a restaurant. They would say, "Oh, there's two Latinos walking into a restaurant," because the assumption would be that you're my friend or even my uncle. Because there is that look and part of it is your Sephardic background.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 21:17

Do you want to tell me that when I speak English, I don't sound like a WASP, Anglo-Saxon, a pure Irish?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 21:26

I would not make that assumption.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 21:30

New England English.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 21:33

That gets back to our earlier conversation about color. I mean, the fact remains is that you and I cannot wake up one morning and decide, "Am I going to be brown or white or different color?" It's not an accessory to us, it is our reality.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 21:48

But I would also say Carlos, and I hope you agree with me, that I wouldn't want it any other way.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 21:53

Oh, yeah. I love being who I am.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 21:56

Yes, exactly. I love being who I am. I love and I thank God for putting me where my life has taken me with my ups and my downs. As I always said, I have never taken off my kippah, and if I feel that I need to take it off, then that's a place I don't want to be.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 22:17

Absolutely. I do recall the incident that happened to you and your family. It's disgusting. It's disgusting that we have to keep on having these type of conversations that incidents like that or vandalism is occurring. When we say that we thank God, I mean, I thank God for the work that I do every day, that I have the honor of working for Chicanos Por La Causa to do what I do every day in English and in Spanish. To be able to advocate, to be able to fight if I have to, not with fists, of course. I would not be very strong in that area. But to be able to be a voice and helpful to others who are like me, look like me, talk like me, it's a blessing. Yes, sometimes I'm yelled at to go back to Mexico. Actually, my favorite is when they say go back home and I'm like, "Why would I go to Hayden? I live here, I live in Phoenix. But yes, I mean, there are those moments and those looks that you get when you go into a store, when you're followed around to ensure that you're not going to shoplift, and yet you can take out a credit card or your debit card just as well as any other shopper, but you happen to be brown.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 22:31

It's like when somebody tells me I'm a dirty Jew, I tell them, "I take a shower every day, so why are you telling me I'm dirty?" Let me ask you a different question. I'm going to go 180 degrees in completely different direction now, if you may.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 23:44

Sure.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 23:45

Maybe a year ago, I remember reading an article that a huge percentage of people in Central and South America they found that where descendant of conversos Jews from the time of the Inquisition. There is a huge spike in people from Latino backgrounds finding their Jewish root-ness. Maybe you know more about this than me because you live within the Latino community. I wanted to know if maybe you have had experiences with that phenomena and how can we capitalize on that, both for the Latino community and the Jewish community?

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 24:31

Right. Well, I think we're talking about that it all goes back to Spain.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 24:35

Yes.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 24:36

But we also can't deny that within the Hispanic/Latino community, there is also a degree being Arabic as well because of the Moors.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 24:47

Sure, absolutely.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 24:49

A while back, I know that there was a renaissance of people from not just Central and South America, but also in the United States, of wanting to retrace and wanting to find some linkage with Jewish ancestry, because why does mom light candles on Friday night, and her mom before her, and her mom before her? Why these behaviors, or these rituals rather, on Friday or other holidays that have no explanation or are not explained to the family? Then that sets people off on this journey to discover that they do indeed have Jewish roots. But I would say I'm going to go out on a limb and say that all of us can find ways to link ourselves to Judaism in the sense of trying to search out what does it mean to save one life and you save the world entire? What does it mean to pursue justice in the way, in the context that is set in the Torah? What do those things mean and how can we apply them to our everyday life even if you are not Jewish? Because there are stories, there are lessons, there are examples that could be a benefit to all society. I know I went way off the subject matter.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 26:15

No, no. That's wonderful, that's wonderful.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 26:20

This year on Rosh Hashanah, my thinking was when we go to Genesis and that time that God said that it was very good, how can we go back not to that time, but to find a way to make everything around us, at least as close as possible to very good? Whether it's in the relationships with others, like we've been talking about, the relationships within our families, which is the cornerstone of who we are, or the way that we serve our country, the way that we serve our community? How can we go back to make it very good? Not just for oneself, but for everyone, because we have to get beyond that idea of oneself and think about everyone.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 27:08

A few months ago I did a DNA test and as I supposed, I was right with a few exceptions. Clearly I have a huge percentage from Spain and actually I can trace back exactly the geographic area that my family comes from Spain. Also, a huge percentage I'm also Turkish because my family from Spain after the Spanish Inquisition, they went to Turkey and they lived in Turkey for 500 years. Somehow we became Turkish. Then what surprised me was that my DNA says that I have about 20% is African American and about another 15% Middle Eastern that is different than Turkish. When I saw that I was so happy. I'm like, "I'm cool. I'm even cooler than what I thought."

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 28:16

Well, rabbi, I will tell you that we must have been on the same frequency because I also did a DNA test.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 28:22

Okay.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 28:24

My results, of course, showed Spain and Mexico, which one would suspect, but there was also I think what, 2% Irish?

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 28:32

Wow!

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 28:33

Right, and 4% from Africa.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 28:36

Right.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 28:37

And this was the most surprising or eye opening: 1% Russia.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 28:42

Wow, wow!

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 28:44

So in many ways, we are who we are in terms of our upbringing and our culture, but we're also in many ways citizens of the world. Because so much of us that creates us are from different parts of the world.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 28:59

Absolutely.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 29:00

I'm wondering what it would be like if we thought in that way in what we do and how we treat others, to understand that we might be related.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 29:11

Yeah. Well, talking about relation, my wife that you know very well, she also took the test. She came out 97% Ashkenazi Jew and 3% Italian. You go figure it out, she's the Italian one. You know what's funny? We are cousins and we didn't know. We are between third and fifth degree cousins, you go figure. So yes, we might be related after all. But I would like to just for a moment, go back to what you were saying earlier and your desire, your pray, which was wonderful. To maybe one day reach a time where it is all good. As God says, after creating every day, he says, "It's good." Then when he created the third day of the week, he said, "And it's very good." I wonder if that is possible, and my take is that no, it's not possible. I am a realist, I understand that we will never be able to eradicate hate completely. I understand we will never be able to eradicate antisemitism, and anti-, and bigotry and all of that. But the question is not in my opinion, whether we will achieve that utopia hope, but it is and therefore, what will I do about it? Knowing that we as a society, as a world, will not be able to eradicate hate because as we say in Italy, "the mother of the stupid is always pregnant." They come out, they ...

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 30:46

But we must try. We must strive.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 30:49

Exactly, exactly. I think that that is the operating word, that we need to continue to strive. Every day that we wake up in the morning, we need to strive towards that goal, knowing that we may not win all the time. But I think it's that effort, it's that desire to make it better, more than whether we achieve it or not.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 31:14

I believe that hate is learned and it can be unlearned. What do we do to help others to unlearn it and what do we do to try, try, and keep on trying to get to that it's good? Maybe it's good doesn't mean that it's great. But at least it's at a place where when people stare at you, they're staring at you out of curiosity, out of wanting to get to know you, and not because they look at you as the other.

Rabbi Michael Beyo: 31:44

Right. Yeah, absolutely right. Carlos, I see that we don't have a lot of time left. I wanted to really, really thank you as a friend for being our guest today. Thank you very, very much. I learned a lot from you today. Thank you.

Carlos Galindo-Elvira: 32:01

And this was very good.

Adrian McIntyre: 32:04

If you enjoyed today's show, please subscribe to Conversation with the Rabbi on your favorite podcast app. You can also find the latest episodes online at conversationwiththerabbi.com. For all of us here at PHX.fm, I'm Adrian McIntyre. Thanks for listening, and please join us for the next Conversation with the Rabbi.